POLAND strikes, Solidarnosc chose to utilize every means of negotiations to win legalization. But the hope aroused by the de facto recog- nition of Solidarnosc in the negotiations is nothing comparable to what gripped the country in September 1980, after the sign- ing of the Gdansk accords. This hope is mixed with a distrust made particularly acute by the experience of years of repres- sion and the 1981 coup d'etat, as well as all the periods of hardening up that have al- ways followed interludes of liberalization since the establishment of Stalinist domina- tion in Poland. In the plants, tensions have
"Our
problems
are not yet
over"
Interview with Stanislaw
Handzlik, Solidarnosc leader at the Lenin steelworks A HISTORIC LEADER of the Nowa Huta steelworkers, Stanislaw Handzlik was an active leader of Solidarnosc in the complex in 1980-81 and one of the underground leaders of the union in the Cracow region after the imposition of the state of war. In this capacity, he was a member of the underground national leadership of Solidarnosc, the TKK.
He was imprisoned several times for his activities and fired from the factory. In April 1988, he joined the strikers in the Lenin steelworks and was elected to the strike committee. After its transformation into the Solidarnosc Organizing Committee in the factory, he has served as its spokesperson.
HAT DO YOU think about Lech Walesa's appeal to halt the strikes on Augus 31?
The idea was a good one, but the way it was carried out left something to be desired. First of all, Lech appealed in a statement that the demand for legalizing Solidarnosc should be left to him, while the internal problems in the striking factories were settled locally - security for the strikers, wage increases, payment of strike days and so on. The next day, he called for stopping the strikes immediately, while the majority of the strike committees were in the course of getting an agreement on these questions.
The strikers were thus confronted with an accomplished fact, and had to interrupt these negotiations. As a result, a lot of the strikers remained fired, and there was no guarantee of security or payment for days on strike. It was possible, however, to get all that, because before Lech's appeal in some of the striking plants negotiations with the management were going well. As soon as he made his appeal, the managements hardened up and did not want to negotiate any more. • Do you think that there was a chance of getting an agreement with the authorities, especially about the legalization of Solldarnosc?
It seems that there were serious divisions on the side of the regime. We are betting on those who want an understanding, who want to set out on the road of democratizing the country. The immediate future will show if this proves effective.
For us it is clear, however, that our problems are not yet over. If we get Solidarosc now, so much the better, but if not, we will wait for the next opportunity. We do not see this in terms of "today or never," or "all or nothing" — we will wait, if necessary, for the opportune moment, when the regime is ready for that. Without the society, without Solidarnose - which in one way or another is an institution that represents the society - there can be no question of any economic reforms. In order to succeeed, reforms involve recognizing society's right to self-determination and its subjective role. • Some Solidarnosc leaders and representatives of the government camp have been raising the idea of an understanding around an anti-crisis pact. What is your attitude to this?
The idea seems reasonable to me, because the main question in Poland today is not who will win, but whether we can get out of the crisis as a nation. And if both sides prove willing, such a national understanding is the only way. Solidarnose is not putting forward too radical a program. On the other hand, the regime — while wanting as much as possible to maintain its possessions — has also to show a readiness for concessions. In fact, the regime is seeking above all to assure its tranquility.
Introducing reforms that would make it possible to stabilize the market would allow it to win time to reconsolidate its ranks and save its stake. It seems that if the regime proves incapable of making concessions on the question of the nomenklatura [bureaucracy) in the plants - which is a precondition for any economic reform -we will not be ready to commit ourselves to such a pact. The question is whether the changes that the regime will grant us can lead to a radical transformation of the econ-
POLAND omy. We are not demanding such a transformation for today, but we want guarantees that it will resolutely commit itself to this road.
• As regards economic reform, In 1980-81 Solidarnosc primarily put the accent on the question of self-management.
Yes. • On the other hand, today above all the question of the market is stressed - especially by the government. There Is a difference there.
I think that Solidarnose has also matured on this point. Moreover, we have quite a different situation. Self-management cannot accomplish anything today. The Hungarian experience, and above all the Yugoslav one, show that self-management is incapable of curing the economy here. It is an outdated remedy. On the other hand the experience of our Western neighbors shows that the market system, the capitalist system, is the most stable and efficient. So, why seek a special road, why involve ourselves in experiments, when we have a ready-made model that works marvelously and achieves a perfect balance? • Nonetheless, this "perfect balance" Is going hand in hand today with considerable unemployment and a certain economic stagnation.
That is a cyclical problem. But the West's economic development is incomparably greater than what we know here. As regards unemployment, I am not afraid of that. The problem is whether unemployed people get decent benefits. If we manage, after some time, to get wages here comparable with those of workers in the West, then it would be possible to live on such benefits.
Of course, unemployment can have other tragic effects for the mental state of those suffering from it. But no one has invented a better system yet. There must be a labor market, and that means that some people will be temporarily out of work
Today, we have to try to begin producing in a capitalist way, and the question of dividing up this product is one for negotiation between representatives of the society and the authorities, or the managers of various plants, or even the owners. I think that we will manage to settle that. • In the recent strikes, a new radical generation of worker and student activists came to the fore. This generation feels a total lack of perspectives, and that is the source of its radicalism. What can it expect from an understanding around an anti-crisis pact?
This new generation now has only one choice: either go abroad to earn money or wait here until God gives it to them. The youth are aware that unless an understanding can be achieved with the regime, the only hope left to them is to emigrate to the 11 West. That means that every attempt to find
"SOLARICE
International Viewpoint #148 • October 3, 1988
POLAND an understanding with the Communists is perceived by them as a way of getting out of this blind alley in five to ten years, of being able to earn enough money to get an appartment or a car. On the other hand, they are very impatient. For a young person, five to ten years is a long time.
But there is no other solution. Unlike the Afghans, we do not have a common border with Pakistan and therefore we also do not have the possibility of obtaining arms to form a guerrilla force in the forests. There is no doubt that the Poles would be ready to fight arms in hand against Communism, but our geo-political situation totally ex-
That is why the tactic of non-violence is so popular here. It is not because we are particularly gentle or pacifistic, because we want to wage a peaceful struggle against an enemy who uses all the means at their disposal, but because we have no
That is the way young peple see it. Today above all they want a hope, a future. They want to beat the regime like a drum — regardless of what sort of a regime it iş, Communist, a national democratic parliament — to get a living standard comparable to the one in the
West. If young people cannot get this in their own country, they are simply going to emigrate, because they feel an integral part
All young people consider themselves primarily human beings, that is a part of human civilization, and secondly as Christians, because many young Poles feel very bound to Christian ideals, and only thirdly as Poles. This hierarchy of values is new in 12 A•KRAUTE 1981
• Has the rather negative attitude of many strikers to Lech Walesa's appeal posed the question of the unity of Solidarnosc, especially if the current nego tiations do not produce anything? I think that regardless of the outcome of the negotiations, Lech Walesa will continue to enjoy a great authority. Undoubtedly, if the negotiations were broken off, strikes would break out here and there. In certain enterprises, the workers struck in August; in others they were preparing to, and in still others we succeeded not without difficulty in preventing strikes when the first negotiations were already underway.
For example, in the coking plant in the Lenin steel complex, a few days ago the Solidarosc Organizing Committee had a hard time convincing the workers not to launch a strike, because they wanted wage negotiations above all. The people there finally accepted our arguments, and agreed to postpone their demands.
However, if the negotiations were broken off, new brush fires would flare up, because not only Solidarnose would strike, but undoubtedly also the OPZZ [National Entente of Unions, the official unions set up by the regime during the state of war], which would try to improve their image by competing with us over wages. There would also be strikes in the plants that have not yet been touched by the movement, the smaller plants where the workers have drawn lessons from the fact that the army did not intervene with tanks and that the police did not break the strikes as they did in Nowa Huta in May. These workers have regained their confidence in collective
The workers would demand their due, especially since the country's economic situation is getting worse daily. Inflation is incredible, and people no longer have any savings, because only nuts would save zlotys, and not everyone has the means to buy and place dollars.
People are living from day to day; families have no hope of saving to buy furniture, washing machines, TVs. We are living as though in the African bush. What we get, we eat every day, and the next day the question arises again of what to do. This is shaping social consciousness and creating an explosive situation. Neither a new state of war, nor the army nor the police can keep such a situation under control. • In your opinion, then, if spontaneous strikes break out, Solidarnosc should take the lead and try to coordinate them.
Yes, absolutely. I think that if the regime denies Solidarnosc the possibility of cooperating in the introduction of economic reforms, precisely in the framework of the anticrisis pact, then the union will have no choice but to fight for material demands. Solidarnosc has to defend workers against the effects of what they call reform, which is digging constantly into the workers' pockets without their being consulted about such economic reform.
Solidarnosc will, therefore, have to coordinate such strikes in the name of defending workers' interests.
This will also be a means of pressure, and perhaps then, after a new wave of strikes, the group in the regime favorable to an understanding will cross the Rubicon and come out from behind the scenes to fight.*
"Walesa
recognizes
perfectly
the mood
of the masses"
Interview with Zuzanna
Dabrowska, Polish
Socialist Party General
Council TWENTY-TWO years old, a student and former member of the Freedom and Peace Movement (WiP), Zuzanna Dabrowska is one of the founders of the Polish Socialist Party (PPS), which was launched in November 1987. She led the party's Wroclaw regional organization. After the split of the group of moderate leaders from the party this spring, she became the secretary of the presidium of the PPS General Council.
W HAT'S YOUR opinion of
Lech Walesa's call for ending the strikes? It is hard to judge if the strike wave could have grown if Lech Walesa had not called for halting the actions. On the one hand, in the Polar factory in Wroclaw, for example, a strike was prepared for September 1. The same was true in the Lublin truck factory. On the other hand, the strikes in Upper Silesia were dying out.
Like any political gesture, Lech Walesa's appeal can be seen in two lights. There is the moral aspect. And from this point of view, the main trade-union leader's conversation with the country's number one policeman, the brains behind the state of war, the strike-breaker, is at the least dubious. Minister of the Interior Czeslaw Kiszczak did not even try to create the illusion that the government or an ad hoc committee was negotiating with the opposition. After the strikes, it has become clear that Jaruzel. ski, Rakowski and Messner do not count. It is Kiszczak who played the leading role, and he clearly owes this to Walesa.
If you consider Walesa's call from the standpoint of its effectiveness, one thing is certain. It was heeded by the strikers. It is still hard to make a judgement about the reactions of the main leaders of Solidarosc. But it should be noted that among the members of the delegation for the round table, you do not find certain important leaders of the union. That indicates that some leaders have given a mandate to Walesa but do not want to involve themselves personally in the game around the round
The workers have also given Walesa a mandate, while wanting the discussion to be kept within a strict framework. They have given Lech Walesa the go-ahead to negotiate the role of Solidarnos as a union and not a club or association. It is too early to talk about the changes for a real entente at the round table. It is clear that this is a tactical gesture by the authorities. As Lampedusa says in The Leopard, when the system begins to break down, it is necessary to make the greatest number of changes possible so that everything remains as before. What Walesa can get will depend therefore on his and the regime's assessment of the degree of determination of society. • Some Solidarnosc leaders and also certain representatives of the government camp have launched the idea of an anti-crisis pact. What do you think
The idea of an anti-crisis pact, which was raised before the August strikes, differs from that of the round table in that today the opposition delegation has a strong argument — the power of the strikers and their obeying Lech Walesa's call. If this argument were not fully utilized, that is if a second union [a new legal Solidarnosc] did not appear on some level in Poland, there would be new strikes and Lech Walesa's authority would suffer. • The idea of the pact was to achieve a sort of quid pro quo. The union would accept austerity, and the authorities would grant some democratic freedoms in exchange.
Recently in an article in Der Spiegel, Adam Michnik did not hesitate to make a parallel with the Moncloa Pact, which resulted in the collapse of the trade-union movement in the Spanish state.
The Moncloa Pact is a very bad precedent. I think that this sort of thing is impossible in Poland today. It is no longer just a small group that has become independent of the opposition leaders but in a certain way the masses of workers. This forms the
POLAND framework that has to be taken into account also by the leaders conducting the negotiations with the representatives of the regime. Everyone knows that during the recent strikes, Lech Walesa was on the brink of being disavowed, and that he managed only with great difficulty to get the strikes
The decisive element was not the acceptance of Lech Walesa's tactic, but the determination of everyone not to offer the regime a spectacle of divisions on the strike front. It is in this way that you have to understand Lech Walesa's words announcing that he would present his resignation if the
He might not have any other choice. Unlike some of his advisors, Walesa recognizes perfectly the mood of the masses, and he has no illusions about his own situation. Therefore, if someone signed an agreement for austerity in exchange for legalizing the union, it would have no reality. As soon as the workers had their own union, they will • Can the young generation, which was in the forefront of the recent strikes, hope for anything from the round table?
Yes, if it leads to an independent union getting the right to exist. Up until then Solidarnose members in the factories concerned themselves with everything but trade-union activity. They printed and distributed leaflets, went to masses for the fatherland and took risks by bringing tons of underground printing materials into factories. Only in some cases did the Solidarnosc commissions take up social problems, organizing mutual aid funds for example (the trade-union activity at Nowa Huta here is the exception that confirms the rule). And this is to say nothing of the fact that in the underground there was no way to renew 13 cadres. Those who got tired left, and their
International Viewpoint #148 • October 3, 1988
POLAND places remained empty. There is a chance that that will change.
Legality for the union, the need to compete with the official unions - which they fear more than anything and give as their main reason for rejecting pluralism — will make it possible to train new cadres in the plants who will tackle the questions that are really the most important ones from the standpoint of the workers — wages, working conditions, social protection.
In this framework, the role of members of different organizations able to train plant activists, to provide them with the necessary materials and teach them how to wage the daily struggle for the workers' rights, will be crucial. This will lead also to a healthy polarization in Solidarnosc. Those members not interested in strictly trade-union questions will, in the natural course of things, find other forms of activity more • The negative attitude of many strikers toward Lech Walesa's initiative has put in question the unity of the Solidarnosc movement, especially if the negotiations for the legalization of the union should fail.
Do you think that it is necessary to try to maintain this unity, which was symbolized by the recent strikes, and if so, how?
The unity of Solidarnosc as a social movement is a myth. That was already true when it was legal, as is natural. Within Solidarnosc, there are many people who represent political options and do not stick to trade-union activity. These people are little by little breaking away from Solidarnosc, creating their own organizations or political parties. This is a healthy and positive phenomenon. Nonetheless, a number of
Solidarosc leaders and advisors still show a tendency to take on everything, to pretend to be the sole representatives of the society both on the political and trade-union level.
The workers have struck to get a free union. That is their main aim. Without its working-class base, Solidarnosc would have no reason to exist, or just become a small political club propagating the ideas of American democracy. So if we want to preserve the unity of Solidarnosc, it will be necessary first of all to determine what Solidarnos must be, which does not at all exclude Solidarnos playing a political role.
If the strikers manage to achieve their aim in the near future, that is, if through systematic pressure they force the regime to grant legality to the union in one form or another, the movement's unity will have to be rebuilt.
For its part, the Polish Socialist Party, as an independent organization and through its activists, is developing and will continue to develop links with the plant union structures in the name of such unity. And we start out from the idea that it is at the 14 , plant level where demands emerge natural' ly that unite the workers. *
"This regime no longer represents anyone"
Interview with Piotr
Niemczyk, Freedom and Peace Movement
(WiP) leader AT 26, Piotr Niemczyk is one of the main leaders of the Freedom and Peace Movement (WiP). Its action in support of the right of young people to refuse to pledge allegiance to the USSR led recently to a modification of the oath and to the creation of conscientious objector's status, a serious setback for General Jaruzelski.
During the recent strikes, WiP activists played an important role supporting the strikers from the outside. In August Piotr Niemczyk worked in a information commission of Solidarnosc, collecting and disseminating the facts about the strikes underway.
HAT DO you think about ing the strike Voices have been raised saying that this call was premature, because the regime had not given any guarantees about granting the demands. The criticisms especially stressed the firing and conscription of many strikers. In my opinion, however, the moment was well chosen, because the strike wave was beginning to ebb. In particular in Jastrzebie and Szczecin, where the strikes first got underway, fatigue was beginning to set in. Although the strikers were very determined, there was a real danger of the movement coming to a halt. Lech Walesa's appeal took account of the fact that the strikers had forced the regime to negotiate, and got it to understand it would no longer ignore social pressure. The regime was confronted with an accomplished fact. In most big enterprises, Solidarosc organizing committees have been appearing publi cly, and at some point the authorities are going to face a public but illegal mass
The regime has to realize that it is obliged to negotiate. The regime is in a trap today, because it has not only to take account of Solidarnosc but also of pressures of the power apparatus, especially the intermediary nomenklatura [bureaucratic hierarchy]. This sector perceives quite clearly that its privileges are under threat, because the power of bureaucrats at this level is often limited to the possibility of firing someone, which a legal Solidarnosc could
In fact, this regime no longer represents anyone, since it does not even really represent its own apparatus. This is a favorable situation for Solidarosc.
• Some Solidarnosc leaders and some representatives of the government have launched the idea of an anti-crisis pact. What do you think about that?
A compromise is necessary, from the standpoint of two sides, the regime and Solidarnosc. It is essential as regards legalization of Solidarnosc. It is essential in the economy. In this country, the question is no longer what can be achieved concretely but what can offer people hope. People know that it will take them fifty years to get a home, and that they will never get a car or a color TV.
In this desperate situation, just the idea that people who really want to improve the situation can concern themselves with it is already a lot. On the other hand, as for the first fruits of such an endeavor, I don't think that in the situation of economic ruin were are in that we can hope for rapid improvement. • In the economy, Solidarnosc's proposals today are rather far removed from those it adopted at its first congress in 1981. Then the question of self-management was central; today stress is being put rather on the market. The model proposed is more concerned with power for managers than with workers' councils.
I would be tempted to answer both "yes" and "no." It is true that you find such tendencies in the recent elaborations of Solidarnosc advisers. But if a more concrete program is to see the light of day, a program able to play the same role as that adopted by the Solidarnosc congress, it cannot emerge without the active participation of trade unionists. Such participation is
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IT MUST BE
SPRING AGAIN
POLAND number of questions concerning liberties and the fight for peace that remain to be settled in our country. Starting with the question of education, for example, in Poland beginning in kindergarten, we are innationalities; beginning in primary school, culcated with aversion toward other we have to take military training. In this way, an unjustified feeling of danger is developed. • In Western Europe, some peace movements raise the question of democratic freedoms in the army. In the Netherlands, for example, draftees have won the right to have their own
\JARUZELSKI
BARLING
The Christian Science Monitor impossible without legalization of Solidarnosc.
So, let us wait, because it is not at all certain that this elaboration will follow the lines of what is being written today, which is inevitably not very representative. On the other hand, the Solidarnos experts, and more generally the activists of the democratic opposition, represent very varied points of view on this subject. Proposals concerning not only the market but also central planning co-exist. Points of view evolve.
I was surprised, for example, to read a position taken by Marcin Krol, who is generally identified with the market option in economic reform, in the last issue of Tygodnik Mazowsze. He explained that a center endowed with substantial prerogatives was necessary to direct the economy as a whole. So, it is hard to say what could be involved in a compromise on economic questions with the regime in the framework members are certainly asking themselves. The WiP is preparing for a congress on this. The WiP has demonstrated its usefulness as a pressure group able to get results. I think that there is a multitude of questions that the WiP should take up. Just looking at the final act of the Helsinki Conference, you see that there is an impressive
Notebooks for
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New:
trade-union organizations. Are such questions being discussed within the WIP?
No. The Polish army is so hermetically sealed that it is virtually impossible to raise the question of democratic freedoms, which moreover are mocked every day outside the armed forces. I think that the first task for us will be to disseminate information and provide aid for conscientious objectors.
In fact, if the law permits conscientious objection, which is an immense step forward, it is still very restrictive and offers a considerable margin of maneuver to the military authorities. So, future objectors will need daily help. The WiP will have a great role to play in this area. * of an anti-crisis pact.
THE FORMATIVE YEARS OF THE
FOURTH INTERNATIONAL (1933-1938)
• Do you think that the negative attitude taken by many strikers toward by Daniel Bensaid
Lech Walesa's call to stop the strikes could call into question the unity of the
Why the movement for socialist democracy founded an independent international or-
Solidarnosc union?
ganization in the 1930s. Unravels the historical reasons, conjunctural prognoses and
No. Commitment to Solidarnosc is too organizational choices, showing in particular that the founding congress of 1938 congeneral for that. It is possible that questions cluded a broad regroupment approach towards anti-Stalinist and anti-imperialist curof personalities may be raised, in terms of rents begun in 1933. Includes articles by opponents and supporters of this approach confidence in one leader or another. But
(Walter Held, Jean van Heijenoort, Henk Sneevliet, George Breitman, Hersch Menthis can be resolved by the democratic functioning of Solidarnosc. Whatever averdel, Michel Pablo, Pierre Frank.) 48 pages, £2.50, $4, 25FF.
sion there may be toward Walesa - and this can indeed be seen among the more
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International Viewpoint #148 • October 3, 1988
CZECHOSLOVAKIA