Answer. After the failure of the paro civico nacional (the national general strike) of October 1980, we went into a downturn. It is clear that the failure of the strike was not. the fault of the mass movement. The strike was not successful and an ebb set in, but it cannot be said that this was a decisive defeat. The struggles have continued. In recent days, the eight main factories in the Medellin region, which has been hard hit by the crisis, have issued a strike call. In these last days also, in the Santander region in the western part of the country, we have seen a unification of the four trade-union confederations. This was - achieved against the opposition of the national leaderships of these confederations by class-struggle currents.
Q. The question of guerilla warfare has assumed a considerable importance in the present situation in Colombia. The M-19 movement has threatened to boycott the elections unless there is an amnesty. What is the position of the PSR on the guerillas?
A. In Colombia for more than thirty years guerrilla warfare has been a self-defense reaction by the peasants to the armed violence of the landlords and the army. The 1948 civil war gave rise to a Liberal Party guerilla force, which was the foundation of the FARC, the guerrilla army now linked to the Colombian CP. Although there have been some manifestations of "focoism" here, this is not part of the Colombian guerrilla
- The appearance of M-19 created a new situation with respect to the guerrillas. While the FARC generally carry on defensive actions, the M-19 staged primarily offensive operations. In the beginning, it won a broad popular sympathy. But over the last period, it has tried to precipitate a governmental crisis without trying to bring forward a working-class alternative. It has been making more and more tactical errors. Boycotting the elections, for example, would be an enormous error.
The M-19's policy is based on the belief that a preevolutionary situation is about to open up in Colombia. From this, they draw the conclusion that the central task of the moment is to organize a "Rebel Army. " We disagree totally with this analysis. But the PSR will be in the vanguard of the struggle for amnesty and support for the political prisoners, most of whom belong to the M-19 movement. And we will struggle to mobilize public opinion against the torture that is being practiced.
The question of repression and attacks on democratic rights has taken on a central importance today in Colombia. l is the axis of your election campaign. Could you explain in more detail what this means?
A. Well before we helped to form the Unidad Democratica coalition, the PSR waged a systematic fight against all forms of repression and for democratic rights. We strove to assure that this fight would be led by the workers movement, but we also tried to make sure that all sorts of bodies and personalities participated in it, including bourgeois ones, if they were ready, for example, to denounce the torture.
With the approach of the elections, we thought that it would be wrong to try to maintain this type of broad alliance in the general electoral field. Our orientation was to build a united front of workers organizations, clearly left parties, that would take up this essential fight for democracy within the framework of total independence from bourgeois parties, programs, and personalities.
The first important struggle for this was against the position of the Colombian CP, whose first move was to propose a list of seven possible candidates for the presidency. Almost all of them were bourgeois personalities, and none of them were acceptable as a candidate of a united front of the left.
We proposed that all the workers parties support the candidate put up by the FIRMES movement, Gerardo Molina, a patriot, a democrat, a socialist thinker, who has a long record in the struggle for democratic rights in this country. We built a national convention for the left parties, as well as the workers and people's organizations, to adopt a united-front platform for struggle. The sort of unity we called for, moreover, did not involve the various parties giving up their programmatic differences. An agreement was reached.
It was the PSR that most resolutely pushed for a united-front platform and which drew it up. It was agreed that the points on which the signatory organizations differed would not be used in agitation in the united-front campaign. But this left every party free to conduct its own campaign on such points. A case in point is solidarity with the Polish workers, to which the Communist Party is stubbornly opposed,
J even though Gerardo Molina himself is the chairman of the Committee for Solidarity with Poland and has signed many declarations of solidarity with Solidarnosc.
The convention was held in November 1981. At that time we began the task of drawing up slates for the general election in March. They had to reflect support for the presidential candidate and for the common platform. But it was agreed that there should be wide latitude in drawing up the slates.
In several regions, such as Antioquia, del Valle, and Atlantico, we managed to put together common slates including all the components of the Unidad Democratica. In others, such as Caqueta and Elmeta, the Communist Party made deals with the Liberal candidate, Luis Carlos Galan, thereby violating one of the fundamental points of the agreement.
The most serious conflict occurred in the Bogota-Cundinamarca region. Before the adoption of Gerardo Molina as the candidate of the left, the PSR formed an electoral bloc, the Unidad de la Izquierda Democratica (Union of the Democratic Left--UDI), with the branch of FIRMES in the area and with the Partido del Trabajo Colombiano (the Colombian Party of Labor). This slate was completely in line with the general points in the agreement on which the Unidad Democratica was based. But the CP launched a big campaign to discredit it, aimed mainly against the PSR.
Q. I think that it is necessary to highlight some aspects of this campaign that 1 have been able to see persanally. For example, on February 21, the CP staged a farce, presenting as the organizers of a central meeting an obscure Workers Party (Posadista) and an imitation PSR. For this maneuver, they were able to use three or four former members of the PSR, who are either just irresponsible or have lost all sense of revolutionary morality and dignity How is the PSR going to react to this type of provocation?
A. We are concerned about this campaign, which is aimed at destroying the UID. It is important to understand that we had discussions with the CP in an attempt to arrive at a joint slate. Its only proposal was to demand that we back its own slates. Faced with this ultimatum, we maintained our right to play an active role in the election campaign in this region and to build our party here. If there is no united-front slate in Cundinamarca, the responsibility
for that falls on the CP. It used these former PSR members, who dropped out of the party, some of them more than a year ago, to stage last Sunday's farce.
We are going to ask the presidential candidate, Gerardo Molina, to assure that the PSR is respected and to try to get a public denunciation of the role these individuals are playing in this campaign attacking our party under the auspices of the CP.
Q. How do you characterize the bourgeois candidates?
A. Alfonso Lopez Michelsen, the official candidate of the Liberal Party, got the nomination by fraud, by organizing a convention made up only of Lopistas, his minions. He is running as "the peace candidate" and claims to be the only one able to assure that the country will not go down the primrose path to "Salvadorization, " as we say here. What is more, he is promising to affiliate the Liberal Party to the Socialist International.
In this way, Lopez is trying to come up with an answer to the crisis of the twoparty system in Colombia and to the tendency in the workers movement to seek unifying forms of organization and a more direct involvement in politics.
This "peace candidate" image is in complete contradiction to Lopez's own policy, the one that he conducted when he was president from 1974 to 1978. At that time, he maintained a special relationship with the military and then handed the power over to them, which they still hold today.
As the representative of the key sectors of the financial bourgeoisie, it was Lopez who introduced into this country neoliberal policies, the methods of the Chicago School, even though today he is carrying out a campaign of demogogy that goes to the point of talking about fighting the
Alfonso Lopez Michelsen is extremely discredited in this country, since his previous term in office was marked by a major upsurge of mass struggles, including in the paro civico nacional of 1977. By his proposal for affiliating to the Socialist International, he is trying both to resolve the crisis of the Liberal Party and to increase the attractiveness of the country for European capital. At the same time, he is maintaining his old economic and political policies. Docorro ramirez. fun.
Belisario Betancur, the candidate of the Conservative Party, who seems now to have a chance to win, also represents sectors of the financial bourgeoisie, and is getting special support from the circles that control drug traffic. As minister of labor, he conducted an ultrareactionary antilabor policy. He is running as a "national unity" candidate, trying to rise above his party and take advantage of the discredit from which Alfonso Lopez Michelsen suffers.
Finally, there is Luis Carlos Galan, the Liberal Party "dissident. " He is supported by the old oligarchy, notably the Lleras Restrepo family and the big press. He is like a nationalist. But his propositions are more and more right wing.
Q. I know that the PSR is studying Gerardo Molina's proposal for building a socialist party. Moreover, it seems possible that the UID will continue after these elections, and that would certainly influence our tactics for building the revolutionary party. Could you explain what the PS's orientation is now on such questions?
A. We think that in the context of the Colombian situation today, Gerardo Molina's proposal is a very important one, and the PSR has responded enthusiastically to it. We are convinced that the proposals and efforts of all those who, like us, are interested in building a party to make the socialist revolution have to be combined. Many sections of the working class and poor masses, who are not even politically organized, have shown an interest in this proposal.
Given the conditions that now exist here, this party would not be a big mass party at the beginning, but it would certainly bring together many revolutionists, trade-unionists, and women and end the present scattering of forces.
We do not think that shortcuts can be found for building the revolutionary party. But we have to support the concrete efforts that the workers movement makes to free itself politically from the bourgeoisie and from reformism.
We think that great attention should be paid to the frequent signs of such strivings for political independence in the Colom bian workers movement, a movement that fights but abstains in elections, which does not act politically. The biggest working-class party, the CP, represents only a tiny minority of the workers.
We also think that the UID is very important, and we think that it is possible to maintain this bloc after the elections, not monopolies.
THE PROGRAM OF UNIDAD DEMOCRATICA
The following is a summary of the program of the Unidad Democratica coalition. It should be noted that the version published after the convention that set up this coalition in November was falsified by the Communist Party, which eliminated some important amendments that were proposed by the PSR and approved by the convention.
The original platform includes five points. The first, entitled "Democratic Rights and Amnesty, "calls for the lifting of the state of seige that has been in effect for decades, abolition of the security statute, general and unconditional amnesty, and dissolution of the secret repressive and paramilitary organs. As regards the rights and demands of the workers movement, it explains the need for a democratic reform of the labor code, for a general wage increase for workers in the towns and the countryside, for support to workers strugtrying to play the "populist" card, to look gles, and for backing the united-front platform presented by the "Class Struggle" current in the unions.
The second point is entitled "Nationalize Natural Resources and the Monopolies. It denounces the government's economic policy and calls for the cancelling of concessions to imperialist enterprises, as well as the nationalization of all Colombian and foreign monopolies.
The third point, "Agrarian and Urban Reform, " calls for confiscation of the big estates and giving the land to the peasants. It also calls for defending the rights of the Native Americans to their land, their culture, and their forms of organization. Along with this, it outlines an urban reform and demands a decrease in the price of public services.
The fourth point, "culture, and the rights of youth and women, " calls for the democratization of culture, the improveonly in the unions and in the struggles in ment of public education and nationalization of the private schools, support for the struggles of students and teachers. It demands equal rights for women and youth.
The fifth point, "An Independent International Policy, " calls for winning and maintaining national sovereignty, support for the struggle of the working class and the peoples of the world for revolution, democracy, self-determination, peace, national liberation, and socialism. It includes support for the rights of the Palestinian people, as well as for the struggles of the peoples of Central America and the Caribbean against the local dictatorships and American intervention.
The platform ends by stating that its obiective is to unite and mobilize the working people, and that in order to achieve the main objectives it puts forth it will be necessary to establish a political power based on the masses of workers and toilers.
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the neighborhoods, but also in the fight for revolutionary unity, for building the "socialist party" for which we have to be begin to open up the way.
Q. Let's talk about the case of the recent solidarity campaign with the PSR to win the release of Ricardo Sanchez, one of your leaders who was kidnapped by rightist commandos. This campaign fortunately was a short one because the problem was resolved quickly. But in the future, how can the International help the PSR?
A. We have always understood that building the PSR in Colombia required the closest possible links with the International and in particular with its central bodies. The campaign for the release of Ricardo Sanchez was very important. Still today we are receiving messages of solidarity from all over the world. But the situation in Colombia is getting worse, repression is growing, especially against the PSR. We are going to continue to need active soli-
The International has helped us to solve our internal problems, especially in debates, where its experience was useful.
Finally, active internationalism, the campaigns that we are waging for example in solidarity with the Salvadoran revolution and the Polish workers, is very important both for building the party in our country and because of the help we are giving to the Sandinista revolution and because of what we are learning from it.
The Polish campaign also is helping us to explain to workers who ask us why we don't join the CP what our differences are with the party with respect to the kind of socialism we are fighting for and with respect to our attitude toward workers struggles.
We think that in this way we are helping to make the International a mass International that will unite all revolutionists and offer an alternative for solving the crisis of leadership in the world workers movement.
Gerardo Molina, FIRMES
Question. On various occasions, you establishment of full democratic rights. But | socialist party, which would therefore be have said that political activity has to be based on the fundamental contradictions of the society, in particular the one between the poor and the rich. Why do you think your campaign is the only one that defends: the poor?
Answer. Colombia is one of the countries where there is the most inequality. With the economic development of recent years, wealth has become concentrated in the hands of a very small minority, while the overwhelming majority of the population--more than 80%--are having difficulty surviving. The greatest problem in Colombia today is hunger. As long as there is hunger, there will be no peace nor any real democracy. The fight against hunger is the central objective of the poor people in Colombia, it is also that of our campaign.
Q. Everybody in Colombia says they want peace. All the candidates claim to be champions of peace. Do you think that rich and poor can struggle together for peace?
A. The peace the rich want is only quiet assurance that there will be no disorders in the country, based on the maintenance of the present social and political "order. " The kind of peace that we want requires changing the economic system. This is why we say that the fight for peace is a long process that leads to establishing a socialism suited to the conditions of Colombia. We will not in any way be content with any peace imposed by the government. Such a peace could only be unstable and short lived.
Q. Thousands of Colombian workers see you as the alternative to the bourgeois candidates. What is your position toward these candidates ?
A. I see them for what they are, candidates whose objective is to preserve the existing order, with certain slight differences among them. For example, Luis Carlos Galan is a bit better than Belisario Betancur and Lopez Michelsen, when he calls for fighting corruption and for the 12 like the other two candidates, Galan in no way supports real social change.
My campaign is the only independent one because it is the only one that rejects the present social system and status quo.
Q. Besides being a candidate for president, you are a leader of the FIRMES movement. What do you think about the role and future of FIRMES in Colombia?
A. It has now achieved its main original objective, that is, to serve as a catalyst to unify the left. That was what we formed FIRMES for in 1978. For the first time, the Colombian left is running a united campaign. Remember, four years ago, there were four left candidates in the presidential elections.
Now, FIRMES has a second and more far-reaching objective, the creation of a socialist party.
Q. Let's try to get a clearer picture of what that means. In recent months, you have talked many times about the need for building a "socialist party." In Colombia, there are several left parties that claim to represent the working class. Why do you think a socialist party is needed, and what sort of features would this party have?
A. For me, the starting point is the crisis of the Colombian two-party system. Both the Conservative and Liberal parties have started to break up, and I do not think they have a political future.
Of course, the Liberal Party is still a mass party. It is supported by the majority of the Colombian people out of tradition or
But since the structures of this party no longer correspond to the needs of the masses, they have been left politically orphans. So, the first task is to attract these masses that have been cast adrift, and secondly to reach the large numbers of people who do not identify with any party.
The CP has a long tradition and a section of the population follows it. But on the left, there is an immense area left uncovered by the CP. We think that the conditions exist today for forming a democratic different from the CP, and also completely distinct from the Social Democracy. want to see FIRMES become a party that can accommodate not just its own members but those who work in other organizations, such as the PRS for example.
Q. Could you give us some examples in other countries of the sort of thing you want, to help us understand it?
A. The closest thing to it is probably the MAS in Venezuela. In Europe, there is nothing that corresponds very closely to what we want. We may have some common points with the French Socialist Party, although it is a Social Democratic party. On some points, it seems to be making a left turn. If the French process radicalizes, it might become a point of reference. On the other hand, if it stagnates, it will be very different from what we want.
Q. To conclude, what led you, a university professor who for long years was one of the most prominent figures in the Liberal Party, to reach the conclusion today that it is necessary to build a socialist party?
A. In the first place, a sense of social justice offended by the inequalities of Colombian society. For a long time, 1 thought that the Liberal Party--which after a defeat whose effects lasted forty-five years regained power in 1930 inspired by a strong spirit of reform--might meet the demands of the masses.
But when I was convinced by the facts that this party was not trying to be a party of the people but had become a representative of the Colombian bourgeoisie, I left it and began to work for the formation of a socialist party.
The objective bases exist today for such a party. This was not true so long as the Liberal Party seemed to the masses to be a "left" party. But today the masses are breaking with Liberalismo, and the political vacuum must be filled. Otherwise, there will simply be chaos.
Question. 1 know that the PTC came out of a split with the MOIR, which for a long time was the largest organization to the left of the CP in Colombia. What were the reasons for this split?
Answer. The PTC was formed in October 1981 by the fusion of the sector that left the MOIR at the beginning of that year, together with Causa Comunista and Corriente de Integracion Marxista. All three groups shared an adherence to "Marxism-Leninism-Mao Tse Tung Thought.
Our split with the MOIR was the culmination of more than two years of very sharp internal fighting. On the organizational level, the fight was over the application of democratic centralism. The MOIR leadership, in an antidemocratic, sectarian, and dogmatic way prevented the expression of different ideas, the formation of currents, inside the organization. favored increasing isolation and sectarian-
On the political level, the fight was around the question of alliances with revolutionary sectors and also with sectors of the opposition to the regime. In a situation where repression was being stepped up, the MOIR leadership was campaigning not just against the government but also against organizations that were being repressed.
On the ideological level, there were important was the MOIR's conception of the USSR as the "main enemy" not only internationally but also in our country. This led it to adopt a conciliatory policy toward the U.S., and consequently toward the exploiting classes in Colombia. led it into opposition to the Nicaraguan and Salvadoran revolutions.
Q. The PTC is part of the Unidad Democratica coalition. Why do you think that this coalition is an effective answer to the problems that exist today in
A. In Colombia, since the end of the 1960s, the left has been dominated by two opposing currents, the CP and the MOIR. Traditionally, the MOIR maintained a sectarian attitude toward the CP. However, we think that while the CP is a dangerous enemy, especially because of its relationship with the USSR, it has a large worker and peasant base. So, we have to work with the CP, even unite with it in action. We have to keep it from monopolizing the anti-imperialist feeling of our people and pushing the revolutionary forces to the sidelines.
The PTC accords an especial importance in this campaign to the Unidad de Izquierda Democratica (UID) coalition established in
Otto Nanez,PTC
the Bogota-Cundinamarca region, along with the PSR and the sector of FIRMES represented by Carlos Bula. There is a need for a revolutionary alternative to the CP in Colombia and we think that this experience of unity and its extension beyond the elections can make a major contribution to the development of such an alternative.
Q. You are no doubt aware of the proposal made by the presidential candidate, Gerardo Molina, for building a "socialist party. " Do you think that there is any relationship between this proposal and the objective you outlined before of building a revolutionary alternative to the CP?
A. We don't think that Molina's proposal can be realized in the short term. This is not only because of the ideological differences that exist but for practical reasons. The CP is gaining influence in the section of FIRMES led by Molina, and it could sabotage the project.
Q. A difficult situation exists today in Colombia. In some rural areas there is a virtual civil war. There are rumors of an impending coup, and very severe police anc parapolice repression. What sort of future do you see ahead for Colombia after the A. Since 1958, when the Liberal and Conservative parties agreed to form the so-called National Front and alternate control of the government, you can say that our country fell into the hands of big capital. This development has accelerated with the growth of the drug traffic, and the big accumulations of capital that it has led to. Four financial groups control the entire economy. Agriculture is bankrupt. The peasant masses are emigrating
This has given rise to the accelerated urbanization of recent years and the proliferation of shantytowns around the big cities. Everything indicates that the economic situation is going to continue to get worse.
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JAMЗ
This is reflected in the crisis of the traditional parties, especially the Liberal Party that has been the party of the bourgeoisie. The two factions of the Liberal Party represent the reactions of different bourgeois factions to the crisis--finance and speculator capital (Lopez Michelsen); and industrial capital (Galan-Lleras
The split in the Liberal Party may favor a victory by the Conservatives, who are the minority party and have an extremely reactionary past and present, If the Liberal Party wins, the banquet of big capital will go on, but the trend will be more and more toward reaction and repression within the framework of formal bourgeois democracy.
On the other hand, the Colombian masses have great traditions of struggle, especially in the recent years, with the national strikes. The economic crisis itself is forcing the workers to fight, and the yellow union confederations are going into crisis. If there is a coup, there is no doubt that revolutionary flames are going to spread in the countryside and that there will be a growth of revolutionary activity throughout the country.
However, in view of the threat of a coup, it is important to inform the world about the situation of the Colombian people and the revolutionary, progressive, and democratic forces. It is important that people prepare for a mass solidarity cam-
Q. To conclude, what sort of balance sheet have you made of your work with the
A. We are working with the PSR in the UID coalition. We have worked together very well, and we are satisfied with the results so far. We have one very important point in common. That is, we want to create a revolutionary alternative. We also have a common interest in the democratic struggle in defense of human rights.
With respect to international issues, at the moment we are united by our understanding of the need for solidarity with the peoples of El Salvador and Poland. This has done a lot to bring us together. Because we think that in Latin America and throughout the world, we have to fight against the aggression of U.S. imperialism but also to defend the right of peoples to self-determination against the USSR. As regards Poland, we have engaged in joint actions and issued joint statements that have had a real weight in the political life of the coun try. This has had enough impact even to force organizations in the orbit of the CP, and therefore pro-Soviet, to demonstrate solidarity with the Polish people.