Interview with
Stock Raisers (UNAG) began building the movement and took charge of the demonstrations and of pressing the demands. On June 14, Comandante Jaime Wheelock told the peasants in Masaya that 323 square kilometers of land in the northern part of the department were going to be converted into a "development and agrarian reform zone."
NICARAGUA
In an initial phase, more than
5, 000 hectares of land were given to
1, 600 peasant families. The lands given to the peasants were expropria-
ON THE occasion of the sixth anniversary of the Sandinista revoluted from
Bolanos.
Other estates belonging to big subject of negotiations.
following interview with Comandante Tomas Borge, a member of
The government has bought the national leadership of the FLN, minister of the interior and president of the Commission for the Autonomy of the Atlantic coast for the region,
CA Barrios explained: "The peasants area. In the interview Borge makes a critical don't want the land just to feed themaspects of the revolutionary process in particular with regard to selves but they also have the problem of maintenance and strengthening of the political say in things. It is our task to respond hegemony of the FSLN. Although he is optimistic on a general level to their aspirations.
Masaya could be the point of departure for a series he does not attempt to paper over the weaknesses of the revolution of actions throughout the country." (5)
and in particular the problem of the political and ideological conf-
In fact, the revolution has greater rontation with the internal enemies of the revolution.
margins for maneuver in the countryside. Speeding up the agrarian reform but has only political consequences.
The problem between meeting the immediate needs of the revolution and the imperatives of neutralizing the social strata that are hesitating tion and the counterrevolution.
The mass work of the UNAG is at the heart of these conflicts.
why it is the mass organization with for developing its own policy to serve the revolution.
Unlike the CST, the UNAG has thus ands of peasants mobilizing to press their own demands.
Inasmuch as the present situation in Nicaragua is one of a sharpening confrontation tion and the counterrevolution, there cannot be any stable balance in the relationship of forces between the of the aggression is social contradictions within Nicaragua.
most difficult sort of problems created by the war, to stimulate the organization of the majority of the Nicaraguan popular masses.
Nicaragua is launching a solidarity entitled "Nicaragua Must campaign
" The stakes of the war that
Survive.
is underway are clear. It is an unequal contest between the main imperialist power and tiny Nicaragua. Everything that can help to loosen the vise must be done.
All the figures and quotations conthe been cerning
Masaya movement have taken from 'Telex Envio', No 62.
International View point 14 October 1985 tion the Nicaraguan journal,
Question. How would you judge the level of participation of the masses in the revolutionary process? should be turned around. The revoluan event in which the people participate to a revolution would not exist at all if it was not for the people. But if people are not totally integrated into the revolutionary process, it is not their responsibility. It is the responsibility of the vanguard, of the leadership bodies who have not at a given moment been sensitive enough involve themselves in the mass moveevaluate the wishes of the mass of the population.
this sense it is important to understand the fact that, at the time of the victory, the FSLN had no experience of power, that it was not even constituted as a political party. It was just a politico-military grouping which, in the beginning, had not even managed to insert itself among the broad masses and provide a lead. At the start, the aims of the mass struggle were in the nature of a protest. That was to be expected since they gone beyond this without some kind of political guidance.
In any case, errors or weaknesses which have produced a certain decline in mass participation in some areas must be blamed on the revolutionary leadership. But it is also important to understand that such errors are
Pensamiento Propio published the assessment of some almost inevitable in the type of sitrevolution is being harassed by an especially aggressive US government, stemming not only from the nature of imperialism itself, but from that deep-rooted hatred that the president, Reagan, has for Nicaragua.
We often say that the basic tenets of the Sandinista revolution, that is to say, the mixed economy and political pluralism are merely tactical in nature. Is that really the case? How do these issues influence the development of mass participation?
The Sandinista revolution took place in a certain geo-political area, in
States' backyard. It was not on an island like Cuba and our revolution is much more influenced by the situation prevailing in forced us, independent of our own will, to encourage political pluralism and a mixed economy. The developformed into a strategy and today the mixed economy, for example, is no longer an operational choice or a camouflage, it is a strategy.
schema made the task of the revolutionary leadership vis-a-vis the masses much more difficult. Political pluralism, the mixed economy and the more general aspects of the revolution have tended to sow confusion among the masses. There is not, and there could not have been an ideological project that was as clearly defined as the Cuban one.
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Tomas Borge
grounds of defending it? Is there a balance to be found? On the other hand what are the effects of reactionary propaganda on the masses?
First of all we have to clarify what kind of criticism we are talking about. Can we say that the journal La Prensa is merely exercising its right of criticism. No, it is not a question of criticism. The freedom to with the freedom that La Prensa and Radio Catolica have to express their opposition to the revolution. When we pose this question we must ask ourselves what form of criticism do the newspapers Barricada or Nuevo Diario or the Sandinsta television network or Radio Sandino or the Voice of Nicaragua, exercise? And we should pinpoint the errors we commit, because we do commit errors. Criticcritcism of La Prensa, and at us from outside, only aims to destroy. Constructive criticthe only acceptable kind in the revolutionary process.
Nevertheless, in our country, the criticisms of the opposition parties, even if they themselves never manage to regroup the masses around them,
A delegation of American Christians, held by the Contras (DR) Our project is much more muddled and complicated and such muddled plans confuse the masses. Up until now, we have not been capable of making the people understand this complexity and it is possible that we are still not capable of it. Anyway, sometimes we have not given our ear. to the concerns of the masses. We have not even had enough clarity of vision ourselves to understand the very complex nature of the whole process.
Q. Could you give a concrete example where this contradiction between the popular nature of the revolution and the framework of political pluralism and the mixed economy, that is national unity, has come out?
A. A very clear example, is that of the issue of freedom of speech. We have had to live with this principle, without being able to explain exactly what it really meant. It took on the meaning that it is usually given in Latin American and in other capitalist countries. And, in some ways we actually accepted that concept.
But if we examine the problem more deeply, what freedom of expression are we really talking about? La Prensa is not just the object of censorship. It operates its own form of censorship, that is, it censors the revolution, it does not provide infor8 mation on the revolution because it is tied to certain class interests
At the same time the Nicaraguan people, the masses, have never expersuch freedom of expression as now; in public places, in the meet programmes with the leaders and also freedom of expression in writing, on radio and television. Of course there are limits, mainly for bureaucratic reasons and because we have not got our ideas on the role of the media completely clear. But despite these limitations, the are able to express themselves. There exists real freedom of speech in
Nonetheless we have to live with this other aspect of freedom of speech, that which the journal La enjoys in order to attack the revolution and which we have to defend and justify in front of US congress members, in front of our European friends and in front of the governments of Latin America. And we do it even though we know that there is between this freedom of and the defence of a political strategy for defence of the revolution which has to survive, which has to preserve its space and live up to the concrete demands of the masses.
How far can one justify the lack of any criticism and self-criticism of the revolutionary process on the perceptions. That is to say, that this propaganda does not have influence to attract people but it has enough to sow confusion. Propaganda about supplies, or the war or patriotic military service, for example, is not going to convert the masses to social
I think that there exists an intermediary layer of people who are not one of the and who are capable of going along with the revolutionary process on certain points and discussing on many others. For example, there are sections of the population who honestly think that we should negotiate with the counter revolutionaries. For our part we have tried to explain that a dialogue of this type would end up denying the very existence of the revolution and I think we have provided these arguments but we have not pushed them home.
In fact, reactionary propaganda, which on many points is the counter-revolutionary itself, has succeeded, in the sense that a section of the population, not a majority, but an important section believes that a dialogue with counterbe positive. Some say that this would improve the situation and bring about peace. Others are content to say that the government should decide.
Q. Would you say that the International Viewpoint 14 October 1985
fundamental problem of mass partiexample, cipation on the basis of this ideologihouse cal confusion is mainly to be found in the towns? Isn't it more difficult through the to fool people in the war zones, special brigades where they have more opportunity to compare fine speeches with reality?
There are sections in the urban areas who are confused but religious and reactionary propaganda, like direct counter revolutionary propaganda also gets into the rural areas.
not underestimate the work that the structural and
Church is doing in the rural areas on view.
the Pacific. I would say that in the same way that the counter-revolumic problems, have targetted the north and the centre of the country as a the reactionary religious have prioritised Region near Managua and in particular Masaya.
They are there.
haven't got ideological themselves
Imagine we
Q. In the three-month courses at the Military Academy which young people in military service do, is there for dialogue any kind of political training or indications given of how to behave with that at the beginning we didn't stress that aspect at the Military Academy. Then course.
ience showed us that people had to for this. Nevertheless, the Sandinista
I don't think three months is enough prioritise military training over political preparation. I think influenced human relations.
at the right time can do more than a scientific manual.
Q. Would you say that the FSLN is beginning to realise the need to forging strengthen the ideological battle, for
International Viewpoint 14 October 1985 the
'house to like the fifth point of
That's
Joaquin ecclesiastics, comandantes of that the government doing? Well, and some campaign.
propaganda.
at a gallop.
it gets confused but it never turns back. In contrast to this, the enemy possesses the major disadvantage of going against the current of history. Moreover we have the power and that also gives us more means to confront the influence of the enemy on the
If we had an ideological army, it would be very easy for us to fight the enemy on this terrain. But as we don't have very strong cadres in this area we have to make use of coercion by the state in order to compensate for our weakness in this confrontahave not completely Far from it. The fundamental task of intervention. Then we can put all our efforts into the ideological war, which in the long run is the most important.
Q. Couldn't we lose the military war as a result of not winning the ideological war?
A. If we abandoned the ideological war, yes. Only at the moment we are prioritising the military war without abandoning the ideological war. We have forces directed towards holding in check the ideological offensive of the enemy and our main forces are assigned to fight the military enemy. When we are able to put our best cadres into the ideological field, there will be a qualitative change in the situation. For the time being we are hitting the enemy's logistical rearguard, their supply centres. This can in the short term, but in a qualitative way, turn the situation of the war around. The counter-revolutionary war is historically destined to fail in the short term. I am talking about the next year or
Within this time limit, what are the prospects for a war of devastation? What chance have the counter-revolutionaries got of increasing the level of instability in the country and of creating an interior battle front?
Imperialism wants to destroy us. They think that coercive economic measures and a counter-revolutionary war can undermine the internal situation. But this shows a total misunderstanding of reality. It is a strategic, historical error on the part of the US understand that real revolutions, that is those which succeed in changing the nature of the ruling bodies because they have changed the class domination of the state, are irreversible.
On July 9, 1984. ten foreign priests were expelled from Nicaragua, accused being involved in 'intensive political work against the Sandinista government."
Even the errors of revolutionaries cannot turn back this process unless the latter begin to quarrel over power, then the structures of the government will be weakened by internal disagreement, as happened in Grenada. It was indeed revolutionaries killed the revolution in not imperialism. What happened in Grenada could only happen here if revolutionaries started to tear each other apart and to fight each other for a share of the power or began to seek individual power. This is the dream of the enemies of the revolution.
You are in charge of special areas I and II and you are president for Nicaragua?
project is a area cultural or social. meeting and national the guidelines will govern above all,
The project of autonomy is project. Through the country as a whole will grow richer. The of autonomy side because it will from the finally
Q. what are the implications of the plan for autonomy on the development of military activity on the Atlantic coast?
A. The plan for autonomy is a 10 political project. The problem calls for a political solution. We have never conceived of a military solu-
And we have corrected any tending in that direction. We do not believe that the demands digenous peoples within Nicaragua, nor the demands of any community to be without justification. We make a distinction between the just demands of those who have been dispossessed and the unjust demands of the enemies of the country. We have sorted the grain the husks. The indigenous peoples are on our side. Nicaragua is the first country in Latin America to recognise the multi racial character of our country.
will be the development omic boycott will bring about important changes in Nicaragua's economic relations abroad, like a greater alignthe socialist countries or with Latin America?
A. I think that we will get a significant amount of aid from many countries in the world, mainly the socialist countries. But such aid will solve our economic problems. Nevertheless, for the moment, this will not change the Nicaraguan model. With time, natural changes will come about. These will not be forced but will come about as part cannot like the trees to link up completely with
The for
These change.
happen if the revolution were
America, stage of could not come about struggle.
instrument for
United stance toward
States,
The itself in
America process constitutes for
And although maintained to
Central violent solution to the other
2.
seeking to find a negotiated solution to the conflict between the US and Nicaragua.
International Viewpoint 14 October 1985
SOUTH AFRICA
We that these different propose organisations be invited to attend and speak mass actions. We also at